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Post by Messorhead on Aug 17, 2011 13:47:44 GMT
I have about 30 Formica fusca collected locally but I couldn't get a queen without disturbing the nest and digging it all up. My question is can I add another queen from somewhere else? and if so does anybody know where or who I can get one from?
Thanks
Matt
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Post by bobdol on Aug 17, 2011 13:53:05 GMT
Hey,
The workers would kill it unless its from their original nest. And even then it would be risky as the queen would be very stressed at being taken away from the original nest. You should just buy a fusca colony on the internet its the easiest and most failsafe way!
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Post by Wood~Ant on Aug 17, 2011 13:55:53 GMT
The simple answer Matt is no, you cannot add any queen(s) from another nest, as their colony scent would not be the same and the workers will kill them. Finding queens at this time of year might prove a bit difficult, but not impossible; but you MUST get a queen from the same nest as it is imperative that she smells the same as the workers you collected. Failure to do so will only end in tears, and destroying the nest by digging it up to try and find a queen is not a good option either
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Post by Messorhead on Aug 17, 2011 14:05:19 GMT
Thanks for the quick replies, only thing about ordering a small colony of fusca off the internet is they are only available in different countries and the shipping is more than the ants.
I read somewhere that it had been successfull adding a queen to the colony where the ants have had a week or so to lose the old queens scent and gradually introduce to workers slowly a few at a time. But I am pretty new to ant keeping so I only know what I read, and have had no first hand experience myself.
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Post by bobdol on Aug 17, 2011 14:54:40 GMT
I know what you mean about the postage costs:/ Its a shame there is not a decent english site that offers the sort of selection of ants and equipment that anstore does.
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Post by Messorhead on Aug 17, 2011 15:34:23 GMT
Yes postage is pain it's hard to justify it unless you are spending a lot to make it worthwhile, even then it's still expensive. Shame the only English sites I have found only seem to have a few native ants available which can all be found in my backgarden.
I was wandering are the queens of this species much larger than the workers? I have noticed a couple of ants larger than the others with longer thicker bums, or is this just worker size variation.
Cheers
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Post by Kyle on Aug 17, 2011 16:15:01 GMT
Queens are easily recognisable compare to there workers, and they are very shy to light, and can be very quick to disappear. Picture of queen with workers
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Post by Messorhead on Aug 17, 2011 17:11:02 GMT
Thanks for the pic, there are no queens none look like that or that big compared to workers.
What will the ants do without a queen? will they build a nest? they just seem to be running around like mad not interested in anything.
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Post by myrmica4ever on Aug 17, 2011 17:31:03 GMT
What about if you collected some cocooned or bare pupae and gave them to the queen then they would have no colony scent. ;D
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Post by Messorhead on Aug 17, 2011 19:16:16 GMT
Will introducing a F. sanguinea queen possibly work?
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Post by Kyle on Aug 17, 2011 20:05:26 GMT
Workers without a queen will just die off given time, they may dig a nest but they'll have no brood of there own. Normally if you give pupa/ cocoons to a queen she will raise them as her own. No, I think the workers would kill the queen, although the name ring a bell as being a slave maker ant .
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Post by Messorhead on Aug 18, 2011 11:41:53 GMT
Yes Formica sanguinea is a slave maker ant, and often makes slaves of Formica fusca I believe. Maybe this could work but how would one go about introducing a Sanguinea queen?
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Post by myrmica4ever on Aug 18, 2011 12:07:57 GMT
You would get some cocoons or pupa that are ready to emerge and give them to the sanguinea queen.
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Post by Wood~Ant on Aug 19, 2011 7:49:24 GMT
Yes Formica sanguinea is a slave maker ant, and often makes slaves of Formica fusca I believe. Maybe this could work but how would one go about introducing a Sanguinea queen? In the wild a sanguinea queen enters the territory of a fusca nest, and once she has found the scent trail leading back to the nest entrance, she follows it. Once she has killed any guards who challenge her, she then seems to adopt some of their pheromones. As she now smells the same or very similar to the colony, she is no longer obstructed. She will then seek out any existing fusca queens and kill them. With only the sanguinea queen remaining the fusca workers now adopt her, raising her brood alongside that of the original fusca queen(s). As the fusca slowly die out and are replaced with sanguinea workers, new slaves are either brought in by raiding parties of her own workers, or the colony becomes entirely sanguinea without a slave species Unlike Polyergus which cannot live without its slaves, Formica sanguinea can and often does; but most nests do contain some "slaves" if another Formica ant species is close enough to be raided. So you could let a sanguinea queen introduce herself as she may be attacked, but being one tough cookie she can usually handle herself against fusca workers on the whole I hope this answers your question?
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Post by Messorhead on Aug 19, 2011 10:41:09 GMT
Thanks again for the info and advice, I have since learned that the first ants I got were not actually Fusca they were jet black and shiny and like bigger chunkier Lasius niger ants what could they be? they were found near a stream on the outside of woods very damp area.
I found another nest of Formica fusca under a log and took some ants and got two queens but one was injured in the process unfortunately.
On my ant hunting travels I have only found Formica rufa, Formica fusca and the usual 3 garden ant species. What I really want to find is some more Formica species, does anybody know if there are any others located in my area?
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