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Post by Ant on Sept 20, 2007 2:15:35 GMT
I believe I have read on wood ant's site a few years ago that there is a native tetramorium species called caespitum, and impurum are not native. Is this correct? Well if it is true, may I put out the request that instead of buying the ever so abundant impurum, that you buy caespitum instead for the same price at antstore. I am against importing non-native ants into other areas. I know they seem the same but, shouldn't the ant stay in their native areas like nature intended. www.antstore.net/shop/product_info.php/info/p1387_Tetramorium-caespitum.html
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Post by Wood~Ant on Sept 20, 2007 8:21:28 GMT
I am against importing non-native ants into other areas. I know they seem the same but, shouldn't the ant stay in their native areas like nature intended. Hi Ant, I am sorry if this answer rocks your boat, but do you not have animals in your zoos that are 'non-native' to the USA? We here in the UK can legally import ants and other insects which are not native to this country. It is a bone of contention with many of our members in the States, as over there your laws restrict the movement of ant species around the country. Ant store bring ant species from around the world into Germany, and then sell them on within the EU. Were this not possible, then I would not have my very healthy colonies of Messor barbarus, (which are my pride and joy at present) as Messor are not a native British ant genus at all. While I can see where you're coming from on this issue nest mate, and I do sympathize that USA residents cannot keep imported ants without a special permit, I see nothing wrong with having ants from another country or continent here in Britain, as long as the keeper/owner shows the correct degree of responsibility for their care and prevents them escaping, although many species would not survive our winters anyway! If you go to your local zoo and they have an Atta cephalotes colony, is it not the case that this species is 'non-native' to your region; and just imagine how boring a visit to the zoo, or safari park would be if they only exhibited animals native to you
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Post by Ant on Sept 20, 2007 10:52:59 GMT
You still require a permit to own any animals, it just cost money for a dog, but, a lot of other animals you need a good trust wothy way to keep them. Most of the habit distruction is beginning because by non.native insects (jipsy moth catterpillars, some asian bettle, fire ants and agentine ants.
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golix
Nurse Ant
Posts: 114
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Post by golix on Sept 20, 2007 11:08:07 GMT
Britain has harsh winters, generally the only time something escapes and survives is if it nests in a building or under it, so they can't really spread. We do have a type of scorpion(Euscorpius flavicaudis) that survives outside in Britain though. Imported in the 18th century I think, and lives in cracks in old walls at certain ports.
Besides I'm sure the USA has lots of exiting creatures, whereas the UK is pretty dull most of the year, that's why we buy non-native creatures.
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Post by Jenny on Sept 20, 2007 11:17:25 GMT
You still require a permit to own any animals. I think when you talk about permits and keeping non native animals/insects, it mainly concerns USA and not here in the UK. The only animals we require permits for are species like poisonous snakes, dangerous/ protected species and that goes for plants that are under conservation areas. Like our wild Orchids and Snowdrops cannot be picked.
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Post by Ant on Sept 20, 2007 18:27:01 GMT
Oh, some smaller things don't need permits like small animals like hamsters. My question is why pay to import if you have a near identical ant is your backyard? Are they rare or only in southern England?
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Post by Formicalondon on Sept 20, 2007 18:32:52 GMT
Why did you write europe and not UK as that’s where the majority of us live and as Tetramorium Impurium can be found all over europe. Why did you single out that species when we also can by Messor barbarus, Pheidole pallidula many species of Camponotus and even far more exotic species none of which even have a UK native species. Also the people who by these ants do so indoors in a formicarium and the weather irregular for non-native species to flourish here.
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Post by Wood~Ant on Sept 20, 2007 18:35:17 GMT
T. caespitum is only found in southern England, and even then it can be very difficult to find unless you live in places like the New Forest in Hampshire. I agree that it is good to have native local ant species, but sadly many Brits are limited to just a few like Lasius or Myrmica. More rare ants such as Leptothorax, Tapinoma or Tetramorium are so hard to find this is why many ant keepers here in the UK tend to buy them FL, Jenant changed the title of the topic to reflect other buyers of Antstore live stock, as although we live in the UK, we do have other European members who also buy non-native species.
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Post by Ant on Sept 20, 2007 18:59:52 GMT
I guess since Massachusetts does have a lot of the genus I usually see imported it makes sense I wouldn't see the want to import. I have seen aphenogaster(sp?), camponotus, myrmica, tetramorium, Lasius, formica, and false honey pot. That I even know the name to. I have seen about 3 unknown kinds as well.
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Post by Ant on Sept 21, 2007 19:08:14 GMT
I was just wondering if anyone even has T. caespitum colony on this board? Also if they are so rare anyway, why would someone think that they were in the U.S. in such plentyful amounts? Now allot of people know that they are a different species that is only called sp. E.
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Post by Ant on Sept 21, 2007 19:47:29 GMT
Yes I know, I go to your site and read up on your journals.
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Post by Jenny on Sept 21, 2007 19:55:31 GMT
Antstore have been selling impurum for years, and have only just started selling caespitum. This could also be another reason for impurum's popularity, as when you are buying ants, you have to have what they have got in stock at the time.
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Post by Jaikaiman on Oct 1, 2007 19:35:38 GMT
I have a colony of T. caespitums. I bought them from Antstore because I was interested in having a colony of Ants that was native to N. America (Pavement Ants). Being a responsible keeper, I studied into them first. I found out that they are deemed a pest in America, and also areas of Europe, so I would certainly not let them escape...even more so because they are a polygyn species meaning they can spawn new nests without having to breed (budding) I think its called.
Its unfortunate that you cannot bring other species into your own country, but after what has happened with the Fire Ant, I can't say I blame the government for their worry.
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Post by Wood~Ant on Oct 2, 2007 9:12:26 GMT
...even more so because they are a polygyn species meaning they can spawn new nests without having to breed (budding) I think its called. Actually no ant colony can spawn a new colony without breeding, as all queens must be fertilized by males before they can produce worker/new queen biased eggs. So "budding" just is not possible without mating first, although it may be that new queens are mated inside the nest and therefore do not require to go on a nuptial mating flight. There is some controversy surrounding this ant species, as they appear to be polygynous, but basically here in England and many parts of Europe they are monogyns. I believe that in the USA these ants produce vast numbers of queens during mating time, and this may cause some nests to divide via the budding process. Antstore actually list this species as a monogyn, as indeed other Tetramorium seem to be also. Perhaps this ant species may have, or may be going through, the forming of 2 distinct sub-species, as for example Myrmica ruginodis; which has macrogyna and microgyna. Macro has fewer queens while micro has many per colony. Ants may not be evolving as fast as animals higher up the evolutionary scale, such as humans; but they are developing changes in their characteristics, so the development of monogynous species into polygynous species is not beyond the realms of improbability animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Formicidae.htmlYou can find some good info on T. caespitum and other USA ant species on the above link, which does indicate that they are polygyn; although here in Southern England they remain strictly monogynous, so far
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Post by Ant on Oct 3, 2007 2:40:53 GMT
I have never seen a single tetramorium polygene beyond the nematic state. They will group together but, will fight when workers arrive. T. caespitum is not native here and is not believed to even be in the U.S. any more. I think they will like the set up more then any other place in my house.
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